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[disnut8]

OK.  I thought I had this.  I thought I understood it during the Bud Shoot Out. But after watching it today, I'm so confused.  I know the top 35 in owners points from last year make it no matter what.  Could someone explain the rest of it?  Like I said, I thought I understood it.

Maybe the commentators just screw it up by over-analyzing during the race.

I need NASCAR Duel Rules for Dummies.  I hate wandering around knowing how 35 got in but not knowing how the other eight did it.    Speed during quals?  I know Mikey made it for his finish in the Duels but why?  I'm an intelligent person but cannot figure NASCAR out on this one.  I think the entire France family was drunk at a bar and came up with these rules.

[elmono311]

The top 35 get in no matter what. That leaves 8 spots for everybody else. Position #43 is reserved for a past champion. There were two past champions attempting Daytona who are not in the top 35: Dale Jarrett and Bill Elliott. Jarrett (1999) gets into the race because he's the most recent champion so Bill Elliott (1988) has to race his way in. So that leaves 7 spots. Three drivers were guaranteed in the show by their qualifying times. They were Johnny Sauter, Sterling Marlin, and Boris Said. So if they did not finish in the top 2 of the drivers who have to race their way in, they still make the show. So that leaves 4 drivers, two for each of the 150s. So the two highest finishing drivers not guaranteed in in each of the 150s  make the show. However, if one of the drivers guaranteed in by qualifying time finishes as one of the top 2, the driver with the next highest qualifying time is guaranteed to make the show. Which is why David Reutimann made the show when Boris Said was one of the top 2 in the first race. And which is why they were saying Jeremy Mayfield would make it if Sterling Marlin finished in the top 2, which didn't happen because Marlin fell out of the top 2 but still made the race because of his qualifying time.

Confused? I'm surprised I'm actually not confused by it

[KnacK]

that sounds as nuts as college bowl games and college standings!

[disnut8]

Actually, the description now makes more sense.  The commentators WERE over-analyzing it.  What they were all giddy about after the first 150 was, okay, Mikey made it.  Said was second of the "out of the 35 drivers".  But they frigging didn't focus on Reutimann until he was hugging Buffy at the end.  Now I get it.  Said was already in.  In the second race, it was just the top two "out of the 35 drivers" who finished the highest who got in.

I did get the past champion's thing.  That one is kind of normal.

This is the premiere event of NASCAR and they have the most f***ed up way of ending up with a field of 43.

[elmono311]

I hate Daytona 500's qualifying. For one thing, it puts all those cars at risk. A driver could have the best superspeedway car in his entire racing career but then some idiot makes a stupid move and wrecks it. It also puts unneeded extra strain on the engines. And drivers like AJ Allmendinger who would have made it on time if it was normal qualifying? Yup, his chances were ruined because of these stupid races.

[disnut8]

Exactly.  That first Duel was a train wreck.  There are so many drivers that aren't in the top 35 that are better than those who are.  Man, Dale Jarrett has to rely on a past champion provisional?  And he has to shut out Bill Elliott.

And the top 35 are in OWNER's points.  It stays with the car.  So you can be a crappy driver and still make it in because you switched cars.

[KnacK]

Looks to me like there should be a huge overhaul of the points system...

[disnut8]

Oh hell, that's what a lot of people want.  But NASCAR won't do it.  They need a way to keep the Jeff Gordons, the Dale Earnhardt, Jrs, the Tony Stewarts, racing every week.  The NASCAR community just about had a heart attack in 2005 when Junior and Gordon missed the chase.  Stewart showed in 2006 that if you miss the chase, give a big double middle finger salute and race your ass off for the final 10 and be dominate no matter what.

Oh man - I really hate my daughter-in-law right now.

[elmono311]

Looks to me like there should be a huge overhaul of the points system...

It's not the points system, it's how they have it set up to qualify. I'd be perfectly happy if they changed the Top 35 rule to a Top 25 or 30 rule. If you're on a good team, you shouldn't even be outside the top 25 after five races. It makes more sense to do that now since there are more full-time teams this year then there have been in decades, to the point there are more full-time teams than starting positions thanks to the arrival of Toyota and with other established teams expanding.

[disnut8]

Yeah, how long does MWR have to race until those drivers are guaranteed in the top 35?  We're talking Michael Waltrip and Dale Jarrett here.  They basically have to start all over again since they are on a new team with new cars.  Their history might remain on NASCAR's books but it is possible that they won't add to it the year because they have to race their ass off to qualify.  Yes, all three team members are in the Daytona 500 but what a freaking tense day Thursday was for them.

[elmono311]

Dale Jarrett will definately make the first five races because of the champion's provisional. All the champions after him are in the Top 35. But if he has to use that provisional for five races, he only has one provisional remaining since they don't get unlimited now. They go by the 2006 owner points for five races. The bad thing for Waltrip is he's -100 points so there's a chance he he can come out of Daytona with negative points, which will be the first time in the history of NASCAR.

[disnut8]

Oh yeah - aren't there three drivers with negative points right now?  Before the race?  And why is it the penalties seem to fly left and right at Daytona?  Now it's Jeff Gordon going to the back.

[elmono311]

There are five drivers with negative points right now

[disnut8]

Yeah, how long does MWR have to race until those drivers are guaranteed in the top 35?  We're talking Michael Waltrip and Dale Jarrett here.  They basically have to start all over again since they are on a new team with new cars.  Their history might remain on NASCAR's books but it is possible that they won't add to it the year because they have to race their ass off to qualify.  Yes, all three team members are in the Daytona 500 but what a freaking tense day Thursday was for them.

Well, after the Daytona 500, maybe these guys don't derseve to be in every race.